Dad's Bible and My Return to the Church
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It is from love that God brought us into existence, and it is from love that God brings us out of sin. From the very beginning to the very end, God is there loving us. How can we return this love that we do not deserve? How is it that God loved us before creating us? And why is God’s love expressed in the form of Christ dying on the cross?
In our latest chat installment, moderated by a Visitation Sister, our chatters humbly confront these mysteries head on. They realize that we are an overspill of God’s love, and that the best we can do in returning that love is to give God as much as we’ve got. But ultimately they stand in wonder how the infinite, eternal God comes into time to make atonement for us. There’s much to learn here, and you won’t want to miss out!
As you confront these topics too, take the time to pray for someone who struggles to know that God loves them, or who has never experienced God’s love in their life.
And check out our Living Jesus Chat Room of the Visitation Sisters. Each Sunday we read a passage of St. Francis de Sales and then gather great insights and sharing.
Question 1: When did God begin to love us? How can you love an uncreated being?
Laura: God loved us from before we were born – knitted us in our mothers’ womb.
Visitation Sister: From all eternity.
Caroline: He loved us into being infinitely long ago and waited for the moment we would be.
Sherry: You can love an uncreated being – when you are outside of time and space in which creation is set.
Denise: Because he is love itself.
Rachel: I don’t think we can understand that. Can’t put infinite in the finite kind of thing? Like Sherry said: Peace, a true peace, how we got that peace by accepting Jesus.
Sherry: And if the uncreated being is a spillover of your essential LOVE, it is not something totally outside of this eternal love. It comes from it. So, God did not have to get to know us. We are an overspill of His love.
Laura: I think love of God is a gift, a grace He gives us. For me, it took years, then exploded when He gave me the gift of Faith.
Sherry: I love that God exploded with His love in your life, Laura! What a grace indeed.
Caroline: No, I’ve been grappling with that concept lately. We put our infinite living God in the Tabernacle of every church. The infinite in the finite.
Laura: Caroline, yes – speaks to Jesus’ deep humility, doesn’t it?
Denise: Yes, Caroline.
Sherry: Deep thought Caroline.
Bethany: We will understand it if we obey Jesus.
Visitation Sister: Yes. What a mystery.
Caroline: It is as though He exists like that inside each one of us, in that place in our center where only He can be.
Sherry: Isn’t it amazing, Caroline? Isn’t it just amazing how he chooses to be with us? It all leads back to the incarnation. Oh, what a blessing that was… and is.
Rebecca: Amen!
Visitation Sister: The Word became flesh.
Rebecca: And pitched his tent among us!
Sherry: These words are so life giving.
Caroline: There really is no reason to fear anything when we remember that.
Sherry: I have not heard this translation for a while, Rebecca, but it is true.
Rebecca: And dwelt among us.
Sherry: I totally agree, Caroline… my question is... Why no psychologist gets trained on this. As a remedy for anxiety?
Rebecca: Good thought!
Caroline: Some do. Fuller Theological Seminary trains that way, and I’m sure other programs do too.
Denise: Secular would not think of it.
Rachel: Most psychologists I think will go as far as “meditation” but not “prayer”. It’s sad really.
Rebecca: There is one in Canada who has been moving nearer and nearer to Faith in Christ and maybe the Catholic Church. Peterson. Can’t remember his first name. He has been in a number of YouTube interviews with Bishop Barron.
Laura: Jordan Peterson?
Sherry: Jordan Peterson is his name, Rebecca.
Sherry: Peter and I follow how he develops. Bishop Barron endorses him a lot.
Rebecca: Unfortunately, Jordan Peterson has been subject to — I was told “reeducation” — because the Canadian Psychological Association did not like what he’s been saying on YouTube. A Canadian court even upheld the Association against him.
Question: How can we have worthy or sufficient love for the infinite goodness of the Creator?
Laura: I’m not sure we can love Him as infinitely and perfectly as He is worthy this side of Heaven. Unless we become saints? Only with His grace.
Caroline: Yes, Laura, He wants us all to be saints.
Sherry: I agree, Laura. I think our unworthiness and imperfection is only redeemed in the light of His grace. That He considers it enough.
Sherry: I guess the right word would be “im-perfection”.
Sherry: That’s a good combination, Caroline. It is basically what I have too. But it was actually Salesian Spirituality that led me to the best ways to rid myself from anxiety in deep ways.
Visitation Sister: We can never have sufficient love in one sense, though the joy lies in the continued growing in love for God but also in another way if we give our all to Him, it is full.
Sherry: That is a good point. It is the journey towards GOD – that is life giving too. Not just the arriving. (which does not happen for a long time anyways).
Caroline: It is the journey to God that counts. So many ways but all lead to Him.
Laura: I can imagine nothing more joyful than giving one’s love to God entirely by entering religious life.
Sherry: Laura. I also thought so – and in a way still do, I think. But I have come to believe that every FIAT is very joyful. Wherever God calls you – we will be most joyful – when we obey.
Denise: I believe God leads each of us in his way, he is the way.
Question: If God has prepared all means for our salvation, why didn’t He simply make it so that we couldn’t fall into original sin?
Bethany: People disobey his words.
Denise: Due to giving us free will.
Sherry: If we would not have free will. We could not love him.
Caroline: It is surrender that lets the joy in.
Sherry: Oh... So lovely said, Caroline.
Denise: I decided I don’t know anything lol.
Sherry: That is a great decision, Denise. I am right with you.
Caroline: I don’t either. Just ruminations.
Rachel: Isn’t it that God didn’t want “slaves” but “children”? We have to choose him.
Caroline: Yes.
Denise: Let the little children come to me, he said.
Caroline: I think these ruminations are Spirit led as they are not going away and are centering on Christ.
Bethany: God is love, put him first, obey him.
Question: What is the atonement?
Sherry: You are asking big questions, Sister, this week. Not complaining... Just saying. Atonement. Is it if someone makes “right” what was done wrong (sinful). That is a very basic approach.
Denise: In atonement for our sins and those of the whole world…are they reparations?
Laura: At-one-ment… always loved that definition. It’s our reconciliation with God the Father by Christ’s death on the cross.
Sherry: In the Bible, atonement is always linked with blood.
Denise: The Precious Blood.
Bethany: Saints are holy, not gods, they are just spiritual. Mom always tells me saints are spiritual guides from Jesus, they are your friend but not idols.
Sherry: In Genesis we read that “God made garments of skin” for Adam and Eve. There was already the first shedding of blood for sin.
Rebecca: Interesting connection, Sherry.
Gianna: Blood sacrifice to satisfy for sins against God to be taken away.
Caroline: Yes, the animals would have had to be sacrificed to use their skins. But it does not actually say that Adam and Eve made a sacrifice.
Sherry: Exactly, Caroline. This is a big point – so God provided the blood.
Denise: If someone receives stigmata, then this would be what you speak of?
Visitation Sister: Stigmata like St Francis of Assisi.
Denise: Yes. Or Padre Pio….
Sherry: I do not want to become too technical, but how would you describe the difference between atonement and forgiveness?
Rebecca: Doesn’t atonement include making up for the sin?
Visitation Sister: Atonement is a process by which a sinner seeks forgiveness from and reconciliation with God, through an act of expiation such as prayer, fasting or good works. Jesus Christ atoned for the sins of the world by his sacrifice on the cross.
Denise: Thank you, Sister … clear explanation.
Rebecca: For instance, as a kid when playing baseball, I broke a neighbor’s window. The neighbor forgave me, but still expected me to replace the broken window. At least my parents would expect me to do that.
Sherry: Forgiveness means sin is not counted against you, so you don’t pay the penalty for sin. Atonement is paying the penalty for the sin, without which forgiveness is not possible. In the case of Jesus dying on the cross, he paid the penalty of our sins so we could be forgiven.
Rebecca: I’m not sure about that explanation, Sherry. We may be able to forgive another who has sinned against us even without his making atonement. If we can do that surely God can.
Sherry: I am glad you mentioned that, Rebecca. I was wondering too.
Sherry: I would love to talk more about forgiveness one day. It is such an interesting concept.
Bethany: Old Testament that they tied up the animals and sacrifices to God; Jesus died on the cross that is offered to God for our sins.
Rebecca: May not be made.
Sherry: You are right Bethany. The sacrifice has to be worthy. And accepted I like the prayer at Mass: “May the Lord accept the sacrifice…”
Bethany: Our sacrifice is our faithful heart and love heart, that is what God wants.
Denise: Oh, yes….
Caroline: It is interesting to wonder if Adam and Eve made atonement since Cain and Abel sacrificed. They would have learned from their parents.
Laura: I think God forgives all sorts of venial sins that we may not even know we’re committing. That would be an example of God’s forgiveness without atonement.
Question: How does Jesus offering Himself on our behalf take away our sins? Why was it “necessary”?
Sherry: We had this discussion a while ago. About forgiveness and atonement. The question was raised. Why do we need to go through purgatory if God forgave all our sins? The answer was: Because forgiveness is not atonement. It is such deep theology – I am not sure if we can handle it here, to be honest, in the chat format.
Bethany: Is bad because he wants us to do his way not Jesus’ way.
Rachel: Isn’t it “My mercy doesn’t want this, but justice demands it,” whatever the quote.
Caroline: Our sins are wiped away in the sacrament of confession, but we must still make reparation.
Sherry: Because Jesus had both natures and could be the only bridge that could bring a natural sacrifice in time into eternity. And the sacrifice of Jesus was necessary in order to remove the abyss of separation between mankind and God.
Rebecca: Wow, that’s a powerful thought, Sherry.
Gianna: Before that, all the holy souls went to the limbo of the Fathers whom Jesus liberated after his death and resurrection.
Laura: “bring a natural sacrifice in time into eternity” – agreed, powerful! And this is what allows us to re-present the sacrifice of Jesus every Mass.
Sherry: Exactly, Laura.
Caroline: We could never atone for ourselves.
Sherry: We could never ever atone for ourselves. So right, Caroline.
Gianna: Old Testament sacrifice was temporary, Jesus is permanent.
Laura: I marvel at God’s absolutely divinely perfect solution to our sin problem.
Sherry: I marvel right beside you, Laura.
Question: When we look back upon the years of our life, do we see how God manifested his mercy — even during difficult or tragic times.
Sherry: Oh... Where to start … so much mercy. So much mercy.
Laura: I can look back and now see how God kept His loving hand on me, protecting me, even through 30 years of unbelief and darkness. His love and mercy are absolutely boundless.
Sherry: Thanks for sharing, Laura. I am also a protected sheep over many years of disobedience. And it is only his mercy that led me back. As I have said earlier. It is our Canadian Thanksgiving this weekend. And my greatest gratitude is for GOD not having given up on me. So very thankful.
Gianna: And such a great mystery when God could have ended my life early without Him and could have gone to hell when so many others did die seemingly without Him.
Rebecca: One of the positive effects of journaling is not only the healing that can happen while one is journaling, but also Looking back and seeing how merciful God has been.
Sherry: Oh, Gianna, your heart must be so full of thanksgiving too.
Caroline: And me!
Gianna: Yes, Sherry!!! Yes, Caroline!!!
Denise: Rebecca, this is a good reason to journal.
Sherry: Yes, Rebecca. That is so so true. When we realize how He has every so subtle untied deep knots in our life and in our soul – and freedom unfolded where for many years bondage has kept us captive.
Visitation Sister: His mercy saves us all.
Gianna: Yes.
Sherry: That said, Gianna, “we all” are all over North America.
Gianna: Yes!
Caroline: This is also the anniversary of the sun dancing at Fatima.
Gianna: Yes!!!
Sherry: Yes. Denise mentioned that in the beginning. Happy Feast Day everyone!
Gianna: Happy feast day!!!
Denise: Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us!
Gianna: Amen!
Denise: Rosaries ???.
Caroline: God bless us everyone.
Denise: Thank you, Sr Susan, and everyone! G’night.
Laura: Good night and blessings to all!
Sherry: Good night, everyone! And enjoy the outing, Rebecca!
Gianna: Thank you again God bless you good night, dear Sr Susan and dear friends!
If you enjoyed this article, why not join us at our Living Jesus Chat Room of the Visitation Sisters. Join us at 7:30 p.m. ET each Sunday! We read a passage of St. Francis de Sales and then gather great insights and sharing!
Kevin J. Banet is a journalist and publicist. He provides marketing for religious communities, non-profits and healthcare services. Kevin and his family live in the Chicago area. His website is VocationPromotion.com.
