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The practice of meditating on the suffering and death of Christ has long been emphasized by many saints, both ancient and modern. It invites believers to explore the profound connection between Jesus' crucifixion and the redemption of humanity. This chatroom dialogue delves into these themes, exploring questions about atonement, the significance of the cross, and how reflecting on Christ's sacrifice can inspire personal transformation.
Through a dynamic exchange of ideas, this conversation illuminates the multifaceted nature of atonement and the concept of redemptive suffering. Participants discuss how Christ's ultimate sacrifice enables believers to find meaning in their own sufferings, aligning them with Jesus' redemptive work.
The dialogue also touches on the role of saints, the practice of sacrifice and penance, and the hope that emerges from the resurrection. This exploration aims to deepen the understanding of these core spiritual concepts while encouraging a deeper commitment to faith and the Christian journey.
And check out our Living Jesus Chat Room of the Visitation Sisters. Each Sunday we read a passage of St. Francis de Sales and then gather great insights and sharing.
Question: Why did so many saints, both old and new, emphasize the practice of meditating on the suffering and death of Christ? Does this help us? Does it give honor to God? How?
Sherry: How can death save us?
Visitation Sister: Thanks, we can start with that.
Bethany: This is why Jesus appears to Faustina.
Sherry: Death itself does not save us, but the death of Jesus does. Well...in some ways dying to ourselves also saves us.
Lydia: Jesus is sinless and so a perfect sacrifice and with His death no other sacrifice is needed. The Old Testament sacrifices had to be repeated over and over.
Sherry: The Old Testament sacrifices did not have the power to “reconcile the world to Himself” (GOD).
Bethany: Jesus wants us to sacrifice our heart.
Sherry: Yes, Bethany. Yes.
Lydia: The life of the Blessed Mother was a sacrifice too…she continually suffered.
Denise: Yes, Lydia.
Lydia: The seven sorrows are enormous.
Bethany: God and Maria sacrificed Jesus to save us.
Sherry: They are – but not redemptive.
Lydia: We can also offer sacrifices of suffering.
Visitation Sister: In union with Jesus' redemptive suffering.
Bethany: We offer a sacrifice of faith, by action, to Jesus.
Lydia: Our sacrifices can be offered for reparation, and for conversion, and for helping souls leave purgatory. Saints in heaven cannot help release souls only we can.
Denise: I did not know this, Lydia, thank you.
Bethany: Saints in heaven and saints on earth offered their good action and holy souls to Jesus and his mercy.
Lydia: Souls in purgatory can pray for us, but cannot pray themselves out.
Rebecca: I’d say Jesus sacrificed Himself.
Question: How does atonement work?
Denise: Reparations for conversions.
Lydia: Forgiveness and atonement are not the same. After our sins are forgiven, we still have to atone for them. We still receive punishment for every sin via purgatory or via suffering here on Earth.
Sherry: I do not like the word “Punishment” in this context.
Bethany: Because Adam and Eve sin.
Sherry: Are we still on the atonement question?
Visitation Sister: Atonement makes up for something or someone, right?
Sherry: Yes.
Bethany: We ask Jesus to help us do everything that is good and right.
Rebecca: That is right, Bethany.
Sherry: With Jesus taking on humankind – and with it – its sin – and then offering HIS life – atonement was achieved.
Lydia: Forgiveness.
Sherry: Lydia – you mean only forgiveness was achieved?
Lydia: Do not think atonement.
Sherry: So – what do you add then that it becomes atonement?
Lydia: Purgatory.
Sherry: Atonement is not for our personal life choices. But for re-setting our state of humanness.
Denise: Where we suffer for our sins.
Bethany: Jesus’ love is not only just for us but for everyone in the whole world.
Lydia: Even after confession you do not just go to heaven. You have to make up for the sin.
Sherry: Of course, Lydia. But was that ever a question?
Lydia: Atonement.
Denise: So, it can be a blessing to suffer for our sins here on earth.
Lydia: Yes.
Sherry: Atonement is – the atonement of our fallen human state – not for our personal sins.
Rebecca: Wow! Thanks, a hard one to understand. Sherry … resetting.
Sherry: Because of the atonement of Jesus Christ – we have a chance to suffer now and get rid of our sins.
Lydia: Forgiveness in Baptism, Confession.
Sherry: Lydia, what does that mean?
Lydia: Atonement in suffering.
Bethany: Lucifer is an angel, but he fell into deep sin, so God punished him, so God let Jesus take the place.
Lydia: Sacrifices, fasting, offering, etc.
Visitation Sister: In the Middle Ages St. Anselm of Canterbury provided the definitive Catholic interpretation of atonement. The question for Anselm, in his work Cur Deus Homo, was how both God’s love and God’s justice can be interpreted in light of the grave reality of human sin. Anselm thought that humankind incurred an infinite debt through original sin and could not pay it back. God desired the flourishing of humankind but could not just “let things slide.” Restitution, or satisfaction, had to be made for the sake of God’. Of God’s honor. So, God offered God’s own self, through Jesus, as a perfect sacrifice to make payment for the human offense of sin. The crucifixion of Jesus, therefore, sets humankind free to choose eternal life. (From US Catholic website.)
Rebecca: Good summary, Sr. Susan.
Sherry: Exactly. … sets humankind free… to CHOOSE eternal life.
Denise: Helpful.
Rebecca: That is how when I was in treatment, Denise, I figured I was in a win-win-win situation, no matter the outcome in terms of the cancer.
Lydia: Yes, we are forgiven, but we are still going to have to have the sin burned off to be able to see God the Father. AND by participating in Christ’s salvific work, which is offering up the pain and suffering for others.
Lydia: Thank you, Rebecca.
Question: If Jesus saves us from sin, why do we still struggle so much with sin and brokenness.
Rebecca: Good question.
Denise: Because we have freewill, and we are sinners, so we struggle with our brokenness.
Sherry: Jesus saves us from the eternal consequence of sin – which is eternal death.
Sherry: Purgatory does not lead to eternal death. Purgatory leads to heaven.
Rebecca: And we become freer by obeying God. And happier!
Sherry: Yes. So much freer.
Rebecca: And trusting him.
Denise: Yes, Jesus, I trust in you.
Sherry: Timely quote, Denise. Obeying means – deep listening. And ever since I heard that, I find it so much easier to joyfully obey God.
Denise: By God’s grace we are able to grow in holiness and closer to him.
Lydia: Http://www.catholiclane.com/purgatory-part-2-salvation-sanctification-and-atonement/. Purgatory Part 2: Salvation, Sanctification, and Atonement: Catholic Lane.
Denise: Thanks, Lydia!
Question: How do we escape the slavery of sin and of this world?
Bethany: Keep faith in Jesus and follow him.
Denise: Only by God’s grace and aligning our will to his.
Sherry: When I look back on my life with God, I see that the grip of sin is loosened. And loosened mostly in the times when I really really leaned into prayer and seeking GOD earnestly. We are not slaves of sin anymore. But we still have to walk it out through the wilderness (desert) until we arrive at the Promised Land. Sin is not our master anymore. That power is broken. But a person can still act like a slave, although the master is not the master anymore.
Rebecca: Opps! Thanks for the reference.
Visitation Sister: Beautiful isn’t it–what God has done for us.
Sherry: Very beautiful.
Lydia: Beautiful, but very sad. Poor Jesus.
Question: If God could have redeemed us in some other way, why did He choose to allow the means in which his Son died a horrible death?
Lydia: Sin is horrible, so only a perfect Sacrifice could merit forgiveness. The horror of sin.
Rebecca: That sure makes sense!
Denise: The paradox of the spiritual life…pain and suffering, pain, and joy!
Sherry: But let’s not forget…that the actual power was the LOVE behind the death. If death alone was needed from a person with two natures, Jesus could have just died. But it was his self-giving love (even unto death. Death on the cross, Phil 2) that brought eternal healing for humankind.
Denise: Amen!
Sherry: The debt was love – and love paid.
Lydia: Jesus could not die, because He had no sin, so He had to be willing to be killed as a sacrifice. No death without sin.
Sherry: Jesus was so full of life, that he had to borrow death from us.
Rebecca: A little slow starting! But gets into some important truths. It is about Abraham and Isaac — and the wives.
Bethany: When I was inMexico, there were young people holding the crucifix, processing, and praying.
Denise: So beautiful, Bethany.
Visitation Sister: Did you see the coverage of the Good Friday walk over Brooklyn Bridge in NYC?
Denise: No. I will look for it!
Visitation Sister: Https://www.youtube.com/watch?V=focyhwsqfwc&list=UU0b_mheed-q-nwyqxhpbqjw&fbclid=iwar3ogucd2u9m1zpvconsfe_-ubgm0u_r6owmepth5qhfbgi5buzv7zrriw4_aem_aad6nryncxdd_1gizww113rm2x1t5hn6oqrj1rnjivwybkfjymysdswpunhnydpur8_seiausppevp8wg50uokv8.
Denise: Ah!! Thank you.
Sherry: They claim that the victory in Austria over the Russian occupation was won by huge processions with Mother Maria and thousands of people praying the rosary. One day – out of the blue – the Russians left. That’s why we escaped communism in our country – where other countries were not so lucky.
Rebecca: That walking in procession with the blessed sacrament was part of the Body of Christ celebration in June in Germany, or in Bavaria, in any case, and the zone of Munich was decorated with trees.
Sherry: Did you mean FRONLEICHNAM, Rebecca? Because processions are very common on this feast day.
Denise: Enjoyed seeing all the people and children, beautiful. May this faith spread around the world!
Rebecca: Thanks for that encouraging display!
Question: Why did so many saints, both old and new, emphasize the practice of meditating on the suffering and death of Christ? Does this help us? How?
Sherry: I often experience supernatural love in my heart – when I meditate on the cross. This love often translates into a deep joy – and I can see God’s goodness clearer.
Lydia: It helps us to understand what Jesus did for us, and to unite our suffering with His so we can participate in His work of salvation….Colossians 1:24: “Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church.”
Lydia: We can only be like Jesus, by acting like Him and knowing what He did. He wants us to share in His nature. Saints with the stigmata are most like Him. They share in His suffering to an immense degree.
Sherry: Col 1:24 is often a stumbling block for our Protestant brothers and sisters.
Visitation Sister: Why?
Sherry: Oh ok. Well Protestant churches do not have the teaching of redemptive suffering. There is nothing “lacking in Christ’s affliction.”
Visitation Sister: Thanks, Sherry- not familiar with that.
Denise: Where I live there is very little faith, I am suffering verbal persecution from non-Catholics and non-believers.
Sherry: Denise, may the Beatitudes be your consolation in this difficult time.
Lydia: There is nothing lacking in Christ, but He shares His work with us and lets us share in His Divine Nature. He lets us share in His work of salvation.
Denise: Lydia, like Padre Pio. Thank you, Sherry.
Sherry: Lydia...I was simply quoting scripture.
Denise: Yes, Sister. We learn here. A gift from God.
Lydia: We can truly be like Jesus, it is what He wants for us, we can be one with Him at the end, but try to be like Him now.
Sherry: That’s what I like about St. Francis de Sales. He gave suffering the right place in a life with GOD. He never denied the importance of suffering but at the same time always encouraged people to live with GOD’s joy too.
Denise: And Jesus suffered. He was always persecuted, and he told us if they persecute me, they will persecute you.
Question: How do we embrace the joy that comes with the Resurrection?
Sherry: Oh, we embrace it with all our heart! What is not to be joyful – when we are saved from eternal death?
Denise: Hope!! And Joy!!
Rebecca: Amen!
Lydia: The resurrection is everything….1 Corinthians 15:13-23. There is nothing without it.
Sherry: Our faith would be in vain. On this 2nd Sunday of Easter – we had our first full spring day. With wonderful weather. It was like nature trying to translate the resurrection joy into something tangible – so all could be invited.
Denise: Beautiful note, Sherry.
Rebecca: My heart aches for those who do not or cannot believe that Jesus is truly risen from the dead.
Sherry: That is a godly sorrow on your heart dear, Rebecca. Yes, keep them in prayer – that one day the veil will lift for them.
Lydia: Romans 14:11. It is written: “’As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.’”.
Visitation Sister: Yes!
Lydia: I think everyone might eventually see Him. Somehow. Jesus knows how.
Sherry: I agree that we will all see him. But seeing Him might not necessarily BE BEING with him.
Lydia: Have faith. Pray. Pray for them. Suffer for them. Pray that God will choose some in the Body of Christ to do so.
Visitation Sister: Persistence and trust. Jesus, I trust in You!
Lydia: Yes, St. Faustina.
Visitation Sister: I will say good night to all now. God bless you!
Sherry: Lovely ending on Divine Mercy Sunday.
Lydia: Jesus told her He would save people if she asked Him to.
If you enjoyed this article, why not join us at our Living Jesus Chat Room of the Visitation Sisters. Join us at 7:30 p.m. ET each Sunday! We read a passage of St. Francis de Sales and then gather great insights and sharing!
Kevin J. Banet is a journalist and publicist. He provides marketing for religious communities, non-profits and healthcare services. Kevin and his family live in the Chicago area. His website is VocationPromotion.com.
