Baptism: Part 3 Infant Baptism
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This is Part 3 of a debate between Jim Drickamer and myself on the topic of purgatory.
Kevin Noles’ Closing: Affirmative
Jim says, “The prison could as likely be hell as purgatory. God would be unjust to keep someone in hell who fully paid his debt regardless of the impossibility of paying in full.” In order to deny purgatory, Jim has willingly sacrificed the doctrine of hell. He has also confirmed that purification, by paying the debt, is needed once we are physically dead in doing this. If someone’s soul is unsaved, it then follows that we should pray for their soul (Romans 10:1), even if they are physically dead.
Jim’s sacrifice of the doctrine of hell is quite alarming and contrary to the Bible:
Matthew 25:45: “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Revelation 20:10: “… and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
There is no ceasing of punishment in hell as is quite clear from the Scriptures. In other words , no Luke 12:57-59 cannot be referring to hell since it directly contradicts what hell is. It also cannot be heaven as “the righteous [go] into eternal life.” We must admit that there is a third state at work here. The name of this state is irrelevant as some Protestant traditions call it the “middle state” while Catholics call it purgatory though doctrines do differ slightly.
A third state is not contrary to Scripture but is shown in Scripture:
1 Peter 3:19-20: “…he [Jesus] went and preached to the spirits in prison…”
Heaven is not prison, Jesus didn’t preach to the damned and one is only kept in a prison for a debt they must pay. In other words, Jesus preached to souls in a state capable to receive salvation yet not in heaven. This is a clear indication of a third state and a second state for those who are “saved.”
When referencing 1 Corinthians 3: 11-15, Jim said “Nor does it speak of purging beginning at death but only at the Day.” As Jim knows, “The Day” can refer to The Last Day or each person’s personal judgment day at death. Jim also conveniently forgets verse 15 “If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” Quite obviously there is a purification of works here as it gets “burned up.” We don’t suffer loss in heaven, we also won’t be saved in hell. Only one option left, a 3rd state.
Jim has not shown that our soul is fully prepared for heaven and he has even acknowledged that after death sins will be purged/purified by Christ. It is much more likely that a saved person will be purged/purified in a third state (purgatory) than in hell since there is no indication in the Bible that those who suffer condemnation are saved but instead, that they suffer eternal punishment. It is also much more likely that purgatory exists as opposed to being purified in heaven since “nothing unclean shall enter it” (Revelation 21:27).
Jim Drickamer’s Closing: Negative
Kevin’s opening, rebuttal, and closing have omitted important information. Kevin has defined purgatory as a postmortem purification of believers who were imperfectly purified at the time of their deaths. But he has never defined perfect purification nor explained in what ways some believers are only imperfectly purified.
Thus, how is someone to whom God has counted faith as righteousness (Romans 4: 5) imperfectly purified? Or how is someone for whom God made Christ Who knew no sin to be sin so that in Him he becomes God’s righteousness (II Corinthians 5: 21) imperfectly purified? Righteousness and imperfection are mutually exclusive.
How is someone whom God has justified through faith in Jesus (Galatians 2: 16) imperfectly purified? Is not forgiving sin purifying?
How is someone for whom Christ gave Himself to redeem him from all lawlessness and to purify for Himself a person for His own possession, zealous for good works (Titus 2: 14), only imperfectly purified by Christ? Did Christ imperfectly die on the cross?
How is someone for whom Christ appeared once for all to put away that man’s sin by the sacrifice of Himself (Hebrews 9: 26) imperfectly purified? Did Christ sacrifice Himself perfectly for only some of that man’s sins? Or did He sacrifice Himself only imperfectly for all his sins?
Kevin has failed to show that there are or just could be righteous, justified, redeemed, and purified believers who yet are imperfect in purification. He has not shown a reason or need for purgatory nor has he provided evidence of its existence.
As to I Corinthians 3: 10-15, the context is one of testing the work done in building the kingdom of God. This is not a judgment for sins in general. The fire tests each man’s work, not his life in general. Yes, a man can suffer loss, but it is his work which is consumed, not his life or heart made pure. And as to the Day, it is a day to make manifest, reveal, and disclose. Obviously, it cannot mean the day of a man’s death, because his works are not revealed on that day. It is the Day of Judgment which means that if this is about purgatory, then no one goes to purgatory till judgment and each would be there no longer than that day, all of which contradicts Roman Catholic theology.
In addition, it must be asked, “Who sends a person to purgatory?” People do not send themselves. The Catholic Church does not send them. Therefore, God is the One Who sends them. This becomes a judicial proceeding in which God declares believers not guilty so they are not sentenced to hell and not purified so they cannot be taken to Heaven immediately. Instead, God condemns them to postmortem purification. Romans 8: 1 says there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Since God cannot condemn them to hell but does condemn them to purgatory, this doctrine contradicts this Scripture passage.
