Response To A Liberal Social Progressive On Abortion

Social progressive view on abortion

Not entirely sure how those things relate, but when I spent 15 years at Catholic School we were taught a couple things:

1) It clearly says in the Bible that God's greatest gift to man was free will, not the ability to inseminate and egg. Strangely, it's the one thing that many Christians want to take away from other people. Seems rather hypocritical.

2) Jesus said, "Judge not, lest ye be judged." That basically means it's not our place to interpret the sins of others, that's between them and God. The next line Jesus said was, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Not sure about you, but I'm pretty sure I've committed the odd sin here or there, so if we're going to have a debate about following the words of Jesus, those ones are pretty clear cut. I have no memory of anywhere in the Bible Jesus talking about abortion, so it's not my place to infer what Jesus or God thought about that.

3) Following on from that point, in the Old Testament, one sin was defined as men trying to know the mind of God. Like I said, it's not my place to figure that stuff out and then judge other people.

4) I also remember the stuff about love thy neighbour. When combined with not judging them, I like to think there's stuff that's none of my business and so I keep out of other people's affairs.

Personally, I'm not one for religion, to each their own whatever helps you sleep at night.

I do however believe in bodily autonomy and bodily integrity. That means a person owns their body and has full and final say about what goes on with it and inside it.

If someone dies tomorrow from an accident, the hospital can't harvest their organs unless they signed a piece of paper saying they could. Doesn't matter how many actually living people that could help because we respect the bodily integrity even of a corpse. But on the other hand, you'd deny the freedom to choose what happens inside an actual living woman's body.

In essence you think it's perfectly ok for a dead person to have more rights than a living person. Sorry, that makes no sense.

And lastly, there's science. Any biologist or reproductive specialist will tell you that a clump of cells or a zygote is not a person. It has the ability to potentially, maybe become a person but until somewhere in the second trimester it's just an multi-celled organism living off a host, in essence it is a parasite.

Now if you want to believe that conception is some "miracle" rather than science, I'm ok with that. But to try and force that belief on me and others, well, that's not fair.

Personally, I wish many Christians would just mind their own business. Stop judging and proselytizing telling everyone else they're sinners. It becomes tiresome.

If there is a God, then when the rest of us meet Him, we'll have that chat and come to a landing, but you won't be involved. God doesn't need your help, apparently he created the whole universe in six days, I think it's safe to say He's got this.

Catholic Prayer Warrior Response
God says, "Thou shalt not murder." Life is the greatest gift. Without life, nothing you discuss has any meaning because there is no society. Everyone is dead.

You might want to check Catholic teachings based on the Magesterium, oral tradition and the Bible. Life is sacred from conception to a natural death.

The verse you refer to is Ephesians 2:8-9 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not of works lest any man should boast." It does not say anything about faith being the greatest gift. Life is.

Christians and Catholics have no problem with sex when it is for love and to fulfill the purpose God created it: procreation. Too many want sexual pleasure with no consequences.

To those who promote or condone abortion, unwanted or unexpected pregnancy is a curse rather than a gift. Can murdering an innocent baby ever be justified for financial expediency?

What kind of choice is it for a mother to commit murder? How can you turn your back on such a horrific decision? Should we not as a society offer better alternatives than death to the unborn?

And, yes it says not to judge another person's heart, knowledge of the mind of God or actions, but God's Word specifically says, "Thou shalt not murder." If killing an innocent baby in the womb is not cold blooded murder, what is it?

Loving your neighbor as yourself is good advice but there is an important command from God right before. It says, 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"Luke 10:27

It would be a good idea to at least know God's laws before you just assume He is fine with abortion. The ten commandments are not merely suggestions. It is sad you are willing to trust your eternal life on an insufficient knowledge of what God expects of each human being.

I know many Christians appear self-righteous and judgmental and many of us are, however we all need to learn how to share what we believe in love. I do have a sincere concern for your moral well-being and that of every human being that has turned their back on God.

Take it from me, it would be much easier to just say, "God is love and He is fine whatever you decide is right. Have your own way. You are the master of your body and life."

In fact, I used to believe exactly as you do until I had a personal experience with Jesus Christ 35 years ago. It rocked my liberal, relativistic world.

Now, I know with certainty that I am held responsible for the loss of any soul that knowingly chooses actions that lead to Hell if I do not speak out in love to them.

Murder, stealing from others (socialism), taking God's name in vain, adultery, idolatry, etc are clear violations of God's laws that lead to damnation for eternity.

I pray you will take a closer look at Catholic teachings. I too fell into the same trap of rejecting God and His Laws when they got in the way of my own personal choice to be god in my own universe.

No matter how much I tried to convince myself that there were no consequences to violating God's Laws, I learned the truth, repented and now experience the joy of eternal life here on earth.

Social Liberal Progressive Response
Well, it's only murder if you ignore science telling you that a multi-celled organism with not ability to think, feel or reason is somehow a person. A three week old zygote has more physiologically and biologically in common with the flu virus than a person. So it's "murder" if you ignore facts. But so is eating a sandwich if we're tossing out the rule book on logic and fact.

Catholic Prayer Warrior Response
Sean, there are other scientists and experts who believe different. Ultrasound advances are giving us an entirely new view of the life of a fetus. Your experts postulate when life begins but only God determines that.

The Holy Scriptures state there is a baby in the womb: Luke 1:41-42 "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In a loud voice she exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear!"

"I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb. Before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as my prophet to the nations." Jeremiah 1:5

The real question is, "What if life begins at conception and any form of chemical or surgical abortion is killing a human being? Are you willing to stand before God one day and say you took the word of scientist over God's word in the scriptures?

I don't know about you but I have read a number of descriptions of Hell by Saints who were allowed to go there while alive and bring back a report. Literally, it scared the hell out of me.

I will do everything in my power to make sure I go to Heaven for all eternity. The intensity of suffering in Hell is beyond comprehension. Is socialism such a great philosophy that you are risking damnation forever?