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The nature of suffering is always a difficult topic, especially when we discuss the idea of “embracing suffering” as God’s will, or as pleasing to God. That is the topic at hand in a recent Visitation Spirit chat room conversation. Read on to explore this topic in its beauty and mystery and difficulty.
How does practicing indifference “show ourselves as true servants of God?” “[T]he will of God was more recognized in sufferings than in the actions of virtues,” says St. Francis de Sales. Why is this the case? Is one more noble than the other? St. Francis says that the “supreme portion” of Christ’s soul “did sovereignly enjoy eternal glory, yet love hindered this glory from spreading its delicious influence into the feelings, or the imagination, or the inferior reason….”
If we are to become another Christ, how does this affect our approach to suffering? Do you have an experience of seeing God more clearly in your suffering and tribulation?
Why would God allow, and even will, suffering? How does it benefit man?
Visitation Sister: This week continues last week’s theme to some extent.
Visitation Sister: It might be good to share what we would call a true servant of God first. How does practicing indifference show ourselves as true servants of God? What is a true servant actually? Great charity helps to define a servant, I think.
Indifference might play a part in that a charitable person is indifferent to their own needs while serving another.
Jenny: A true servant - one who demonstrates love of God instead of only giving “lip service” … perhaps, one who genuinely desires to surrender his/her own will and embrace God’s Will, trusting in the plans of Divine Providence.
Visitation Sister: Good definition, Jenny - and we know that a person whose cause is before the Congregation for Saints is first called a ‘Servant of God’.
Anne: Perhaps, “practicing indifference can help show ourselves as a true servant of God” when one is not set on their own plan or agenda, but instead open to the Will of God… especially when it is unpleasant and uncomfortable.
Anne: And then desiring this out of love.
Visitation Sister: Good point, Anne. Getting away from our agendas.
Anne: Including indifference towards suffering. If that is the Will of God for you, then embrace it, which can be hard in our human bodies to embrace with indifference.
Visitation Sister: “The will of God was more recognized in sufferings than in the actions of virtues.” Why is this the case?
Betty: Sufferings are a paradox. God did not create suffering but uses it for great good if we unite ours to His.
Visitation Sister: I think virtues truly show God’s Presence.
Visitation Sister: They can be as difficult to enact as sufferings are to endure.
Linda: Back to “Indifference.” That does not mean what we ordinarily mean by the word. Not the way St Francis de Sales uses the word here, anyway.
Visitation Sister: Should we redefine it?
Visitation Sister: It does not mean ‘not caring’ but being open either way to whatever God wants.
Betty: If we are not indifferent, we can let something come between us and God. Even if that is a good thing, if we care more about it than our relationship with God, then it becomes an idol.
Linda: Very good, Betty.
David: Amen, Betty!!!
Linda: I was thinking something like that. And what you said, Sister.
Visitation Sister: But now we go back to suffering vs. virtue. How can these two even be compared?
Jenny: So, as I understand it, indifference is the perfect disposition of having absolutely no desire of my own, but only desiring the Will of God; whereas, resignation is having my own desire but choosing not to act on it or consent to it because I am surrendering to God’s Will instead.
Linda: It’s considering everything to be far less important than doing the will of God.
Linda: Of course, you have to be able to accurately discern God’s will to “apply” indifference to life’s situations.
Betty: Now there’s the heart of the matter!
Linda: And, I think, realize that our own “vision” may be like that of an earthworm in comparison to his LOVING plans for us and for the people we love.
Jenny: Amen, Linda!
Linda: We cannot love them more perfectly than He does.
Visitation Sister: Yes!
Linda: And God’s ways are mysterious.
Visitation Sister: So, is suffering more noble than virtue?
David: God opposes the proud and gives grace to the humble! Friendship with the world is enmity with God! Been reading James chapter 4.
Linda: No. Suffering with patience, with love, is virtuous.
Betty: Suffering teaches us virtue?
Linda: But so is celebrating with love.
Jenny: God’s Will being “recognized” more in sufferings than in virtue: maybe one is not more noble than the other, but part of our human response to lived experiences is to “pay more attention” or be more acutely aware in the midst of suffering; thus, we recognize God’s Will more during those times?
David: Suffering gives us an opportunity to serve others who are going through the same suffering later on!!! It equips us to serve others in pain!!!
Martha: Jesus suffered for us, and so we need to take our cross and suffer for the Love of God.
David: Virtue also gives us the opportunity to Serve Others by showing them or teaching them God’s Way!!!
Visitation Sister: So, they can go hand in hand!
David: Tools to Serve God and Others in this Life!!!
Gerry: It takes virtue to suffer and accept suffering.
Linda: Romans 8, I think — circa v. 18 ff. Let me check.
Linda: Related, but not exactly what I was thinking of.
Visitation Sister: Yes, true, Gerry. I wonder when we see God more clearly, it probably depends on the individual.
Linda: Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. [Romans 5:3-9].
David: Amen!!!!
Betty: So, if we are not suffering, we are not growing.
Visitation Sister: Growth feels like suffering very often.
Gerry: Suffering can come to us in many ways.
David: Barometer for our relationship with God! Do we Glory in Suffering or do we just complain?
Linda: Jesus seemed to know: “Glorify your Son” — before the crucifixion.
Jenny: There is a certain kind of suffering that comes with watching others suffer — like Our Blessed Mother’s pierced heart.
David: When we Glory, we are open to assisting God in many ways!!! When we are stuck in complaining, we miss opportunities God has for us to serve in the midst of suffering.
Visitation Sister: Or like what you do with your clients: you help but you also watch.
Linda: And most any mother or father of a sick or suffering child — or a child bullied.
Gerry: Yes, and sometimes that is a harder suffering. To see another in pain and not be able to take the pain away.
Linda: Indeed.
Anne: Maybe it depends on one’s response in either circumstance.
Anne: Whether suffering or watching suffering.
Betty: Yes, to be a caregiver and watch someone’s health failing and being powerless.
Jenny: …which presents the opportunity to grow in virtues: trust, faith, ….
Linda: So true.
David: Action if Service to God to Suffer with Others.
Jenny: What do you mean, David?
Linda: . . . and maybe even not SHOW that one is suffering.
Anne: Perhaps the greater suffering is being separated from love, and whether one is to suffer or not to suffer, if our human response in that circumstance is disconnected from God or love or others, maybe that is a great suffering.
Betty: Yes.
Anne: So, to glorify God and to have indifference requires great trust.
David: It is Christian Action to suffer with others who are suffering. You are carrying some of their burden of suffering!
Linda: That is close to the definition of Hell, Anne. Being permanently separated from God, and God is Love.
Jenny: Yes.
Visitation Sister: Trust in Another, Faith, Confidence, all related.
David: Love lifts the burdens from others and avoids placing burdens on others.
Martha: If separated from God, sometimes that suffering will bring you back to God.
Anne: Yes, God can allow suffering, and can bring good out of it.
Jenny: Just think of how much closer we are to God each time we go to Confession.
Betty: I struggle with that, David: not trying to lighten the burden for others but looking to others besides Jesus to help carry mine.
Linda: Purgatory’s definition, Martha, only not the “sometimes” part. In Purgatory the victory is assured, once one has been sufficiently purified.
Visitation Sister: And the suffering in purgatory is about the desire to be with God.
Jenny: Maybe that is part of where the joy in suffering comes from: Since we know purgation is necessary, each “taste” of it brings Heaven sooner, one hopes.
Betty: To be so close and yet so far away.
Anne: That may be why suffering with others is considered loving. God is in others, and then by sharing in suffering we are connected to love and to God and to others.
David: Betty, when we really take time to listen to others and they share with us, it really lifts burdens. Missed opportunity this morning: I said something too soon and prevented someone from sharing!!! It was a missed opportunity to lift a burden! We are all learning!!!
Jenny: I have to say goodnight early: blessings, everyone!
Anne: Blessings!
Linda: Betty, there is a time for being a Simeon — helping carry others’ crosses — and a time for letting others help us. It’s not one or the other. And the latter, becoming dependent upon others out of necessity, may be harder than carrying others’ burdens or even strengthening them to carry them themselves (I’m thinking here especially of children). Jesus’ way to Calvary was way harder than the bit of help he had.
Betty: Maybe that’s why so many strong and independent people face devastating illness and loss of independence.
Visitation Sister: Thank you all for such great contributions tonight. Hope this helps your Lenten journey!
Anne: Thank you!
Martha: Thank you, Sister, for these weekly chats!
Gerry: Thank you.
Linda: Thank you, Sister.
Betty: Thank you, Sister!
Martha: Good night, everyone. I truly enjoy these chats. God Bless.
David: God Bless You All!!!
Gerry: Good night.
Betty: God bless you all! Another fun and thought-provoking evening!
Visitation Sister: You are welcome. Prayers for all this week!
Did you enjoy this discussion? Why not join the chat this Sunday? Go to the Visitation Sisters’ “Living Jesus Chat Room.”
Kevin J. Banet is a journalist and publicist. He provides marketing for religious communities, non-profits and healthcare services. Kevin and his family live in the Chicago area. His website is VocationPromotion.com.
